Its not surprising, considering the disproportional amount of airtime news stations like sky and the BBC keep giving them.
I mean, they have 1 councilor and so much coverage. The green party have over 300 and you’ll never hear a peep out of them from the right wing client media or the compromised BBC.
The green party have over 300
True, but the green party also have over 800 councillors
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68956733
Tories becoming a third party will be hilarious
I predict they will formally merge with Reform UK during the next election cycle. Too much money behind them for them to just disappear into the political wilderness.
Yeah, if there’s one thing you can count on it’s the left fracturing and conservatives having class solidarity.
We can gloat now, but I fear that the Tories will veer further right to get back into power.
Every dimension of the world is heating up and everyone is getting desperate.
The common folk are clawing for change and will grasp anything to take back some power. The elites are feeling the walls close in around them and will lash out at any perceived threat to their position.
Once Labour win, we’ll have 5 years to prepare for worse times to come, 10 maximum. It’s not going to be pretty after that.
I want off this fucking sinking island, before it pulls me under with it. But I fear there’s nowhere else to run to, no shelter to ride out the storm. Humanity has never faced the collapse of a global civilization before, and I feel a lot of us will see it happen before we depart this world.
I don’t know, I think the Tories veering further and further right is partially what led them to the mess they’re in now. I’m hoping that 5 years in opposition, we’ll see more moderate Tories come back to the forefront, or, even better, Lib Dems take the mantle as the main opposition party.
But who knows, you may be right. I dread to think we’re about to jump off the deep end and end up like US politics.
I think the UK has a lot more swing voters than the US. In the US way too many people are Republican or Democrat people. They will vote for ‘their’ party or not at all. In the UK it’s more fluid and not part of people’s identity. Even a raging gammon changes who they vote for, as the Conservatives are finding out. Chasing that vote is losing them moderate votes.
way too many people are Republican or Democrat people
We don’t have the same kind of proportional representation, are nearly 100% first-past-the-post, and there are in-built advantages to the two major parties. Because of the shitty system, presidential elections generally necessitate voting for one or the other or the vote is split enough that one of those two that didn’t have votes siphoned off wins.
At more local/regional levels, there are other parties out there that can be viable. We have primary elections (I’m not sure what the UK equivalent would be) and I know that some people are voting outside of the two main parties there. However, when the actual election comes, it’s almost always two candidates and almost always from those two parties so it’s voting for the least-worst. It sucks.
I think two party systems and FPTP need to go. In both UK and the US.
What I favour is Mixed Member Proportional Representation. Like NewZealand and Germany. But I want it PR mixed with Score/Range voting rather than FPTP.
The UK also needs decentralizing and federating. Maybe break up England into units similar to Scotland, Wales and NI.
We tried, but the same party now bleating that a Labour supermajority would be bad for the country was then obsessing over the cost of having better voting, thought we needed more bullteproof vests and incubators, and that majority governments made countries stronger.
I don’t expect it to come up for review again under the other party in our two party system. What we were being offered wasn’t fantastic, but it was better than what we had, and will be used as a stick to beat anybody calling for another referendum into submission.
We can gloat now, but I fear that the Tories will veer further right to get back into power.
They can go as far to the right as they want while being in opposition, but if they want any gleam of power they will have to come back to the centre. Look at Labour with Corbyn and Labour today, it will be the same but on the opposite side. They’ll have a year or 2 with some hard right policies, realise it’s not working, then get a more sane leader in when the election window gets closer.
Once Labour win, we’ll have 5 years to prepare for worse times to come, 10 maximum. It’s not going to be pretty after that.
I think you’re being generous with your time there, people have short memories, let’s not forget Labour aren’t exactly winning on merit here but more “the least worst option”, they’ll have a honeymoon period of about 2 years before people ask “why are things still bad??”
Nice thought. But that will never happen with our rotten FPTP system
It’s unlikely but it actually could happen if tactical voting is used. Remember tactical voting is the Achilles tendon of the first pass the post system. It assumes that people won’t figure it out and won’t vote accordingly and historically that was true but now that’s changing. Mostly because the conservatives have become utterly reprehensible.
Previously they were at least moderately acceptable and so people put up with them
I loved his work on Brexit, I wonder what he’ll do next to improve the life of the common folk?
He will personally come round and shit on your living room carpet.
Impressive, I would have thought he’d have sent a guy for that.
Only if you are an immigrate. British born citizens he will shit on personally.
I agree that Britain needs reform, but my version probably involves putting racist demagogues in the village stocks a bit more than theirs.
After the D day gaffe, I think the Tories are fucked.
Truly a bacon sandwich moment for the ages.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Reform UK has pulled to within two points of the Conservatives, according to the latest YouGov poll of the election campaign for Sky News.
The latest exclusive weekly survey, conducted on Monday and Tuesday before the head-to-head TV debate, puts Labour on 40%, the Tories on 19%, Reform UK on 17%, the Liberal Democrats on 10% and the Greens on 7%.
The impact of the methodological change - which applies modelling to turnout and the behaviour of don’t knows - is typically to reduce the Labour lead by three and increase the Lib Dem share by about two.
The poll is likely to worry some Conservatives, who fear losing voters on the right of their party to Reform UK - especially now Mr Farage is at the helm.
Read More:What is the Reform party and what are their policies?Panic will spread through Tory ranks after stunning pollWoman charged with assault after milkshake thrown at Farage
A YouGov MRP poll of 53,334 people in England and Wales and 5,541 in Scotland, published on Monday, had the Conservatives likely to win Clacton but that was before Mr Farage made his dramatic announcement to return to frontline politics.
The original article contains 459 words, the summary contains 195 words. Saved 58%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
removed by mod
As wonderful a sweeping statement as “the left have lost their mind” (said no one who would ever vote left ever) is, its pretty laughable that anyone thinks the corporatist reform party would ever actually lower immigration.
I mean, literally all of the left leaning parties have said they will lower immigration but don’t let that ruin the narrative.
I have exclusively only voted left actually.
The left aren’t doing enough, the Tories have proven they haven’t done enough. That’s why reform makes sense because it sends a message about how much immigration needs to be reduced.
Course you did and it’s their fault youre voting farrage too…
“Da left” haven’t done anything at all, seeing as they haven’t been in power for over 2 decades. Thats why your claim makes no sense.
Oh, it makes you send a message alright. Although, its not the one you think you’re sending.
Why would I lie about voting for the left?
I have economically left views. But it’s I don’t think the left are planning to do enough.
There is nothing wrong with anything I said. Just you can’t accept people have different opinions to you so all you think is that I must be lying.
To normalise the idea that people who once voted "for the left ^^^tm " now voting for a hard right reform party. Because you’re bored. Because it seemed funny. Who knows, why does anyone lie?
So, as “the left” aren’t meeting your left wing economic planning expectations, you decided to go with a party who have NO left leaning economic plans. Well, id love to hear how you plan to square that circle.
Of course I can accept that people have different opinions to me. What a silly thing to say. No, sadly, its that it sounds like bollocks and it doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny, is all.
Of course it holds up to scrutiny. You are just close minded.
I, and probably most left wing people throughout history, have had economically left views and want low immigration. I don’t know why you can’t accept that.
The left aren’t doing enough, or talking about doing enough, about immigration. So as such I have to make a decision. What’s more important, kinda crappy left views that in my opinion don’t go far enough. Or deal with immigration.
Immigration is such a big issue that the left are losing voters like me to parties that will do something about immigration.
If there was a left party talking about immigration as much as reform and was polling the same I’d vote for them. But right now the big issue is immigration and I want that solved. I’m willing to take a economic hit achieve that. But I also think lowering immigration is good for the economy and the workers in it. So I get to vote for 2/3 things I want rather than 1/3. There does that basic maths help you understand now? It’s really not hard.
My mind is open. Its just youre taking a load of bollocks, is all. Its really not my fault you’re trying to sell these whoppers.
I’ll show you how it doesn’t hold up:
Exaclty who are “the left” here and what isn’t going far enough, that reform has gone far enough on? Don’t be light on the detail or just declare wide sweeping BS and you should find the root of the problem.
“As a black man…”
Congratulations on being black.
But there isn’t much I can do to convince you to be black or not so it is irrelevant.
Seeing as we are talking about views and information. Then views are are relevant. Also I was directly (and incorrectly) called out for not being a leftie.
I am calling horseshit on you being “a leftie.”
I’m sorry it wasn’t blunt enough the first time.
‘I’d always support [blank], but now they’ve nonspecifically gone too far! so I’m voting for the complete opposite’ is fascist propaganda. What’s it doing in your mouth, comrade?
Let me ask you bluntly then.
What makes a person left leaning vs right leaning? I’m talking minimum standard to be a leftie here not current left or current right parties.
I mean historically what views separate the right from the left?
Why would anyone put effort into spoon-feeding you your own claimed philosophy, when the root comment is generic whining that “the left has completely lost their mind?” Your sole bugbear is immigration (a stereotypical right-wing fixation) and all you’ve done is mumble about “more,” until it’s “enough.”
You don’t even know what valid criticism looks like.
Oh, sorry, you do eventually blame immigrants for housing and wages. Because scapegoating brown people is totes mcgoats the leftist approach to problems with capital.
Assuming you’re not trolling. Can you please expand on what good points do you think they offer?
Getting rid of FPTP and doing absolutely anything about immigration rather than just acting like it isn’t an issue.
Everything else is secondary.
- almost every major political party in the UK has an anti-immigration stance, so they certainly do act like it’s an issue
- despite media scaremongering about immigration, there’s no credible evidence that immigration in the UK has negative social or economic consequences overall
- the lovely people behind reform UK previously campaigned for us to leave the EU in order to reduce immigration, and not only did it not reduce immigration but it was also a multi-year political shitshow (and it tanked the economy, and it pulled us out of the EU human rights convention, and it fucked up supply chains, and it decimated arts and science funding, etc etc)
to be honest I’m kind of amazed that UK voters would fall for the same obvious grift twice
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Yet they aren’t going far enough.
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People have been so horrifically mislead on this it’s unbelievable. It’s true immigration as a whole can be “good” (what good is, is debatable) but it also isn’t wrong to say that it could be good to reduce immigration. Not all immigration is the same and not all amount are the same, grouping it together messes the whole thing up. The purpose of immigration as it is now now is to keep wages down and keep houses prices up.
Do you really care about GDP do you even really care about GDP per capita? Probably not but those figures are used to woo you. What’s better having a GDP per capita of 50,000 and rent of 40,000 or having a GDP per capita of 30,000 and having rent of 10,000? With lower rents people have more discretionary income and they can go out spend more, grow the economy and it will create growth. Everyone wins. Currently all our money is going to landowners and business owners. Immigration is for them not for us. So you say we need more X workers. Okay pay people enough to do it. They aren’t trained? Pay for training it’s not hard it just costs money. It’s not like the UK is at 100% employment rate people want to work but can’t. It’s cheaper to get immigrants to do it, but its bad for the UK.
Look at Japan low immigration, low house costs, low crime. They manage to fill their jobs. Yet Japan is doing something wrong?
Let’s get some facts and figures. Here is an article about UK losing money to immigration.
Here is Danish data on crime.
https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark
Why are we taking in people that are taking British people jobs costing the country money and committing more crimes than locals?
I voted remain, I’m happy to have immigration. But what it is now and what it is used for is wrong. You really think net migration of over half a million people per year is good? Why is that happening?
That’s not even to mention the cultural aspect. I love Britain and I love how it is. But I am also very well travelled and the place I most felt like an outsider and been stared like I don’t belong is within the UK. Why are we doing that to ourselves? If we take a financial hit to train our workforce, give them jobs and keep our culture I’m happy to do it. Give us the choice. But I actually think financially the people will be better off at the expense of the upper class. They why we don’t get to choose.
- Brexit was a shower of shit. Yea. Boris pushed for it and then had the power to do something about it. He’s one of the most evil politicians in the UK. Fuck him. Brexit was a vote for less immigration, it’s not the peoples fault or even UKIPs fault that immigration didn’t go down.
Whatever happened then doesn’t mean we don’t have issues now.
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Dumb people will double down in an attempt to present they were always right, even after they admit they were sort of wrong. If they can reverse that previous loss into a win, they were always right.
If you want to get rid of first pass in the post there are less repugnant parties than Reform. Especially considering the fact that their only MP got in the position because he was too racist for the Tories and he was only in the Tories because he got kicked out of Labour.
So their one main representative is a man who has no morals and cannot be trusted to tell you the colour of the sky with any degree reliability.
I said this the other day and I’ll say it again because it’s a point that people such as yourself seem unable to gork. If they win, they will win under first pass the post, instantly removing any incentive they would have to get rid of it. Given their tendency to lie in order to get what they want, I would be extremely skeptical of anything they promise.
You comment is entirely based on the assumption I think voting for Reform will lead to reform being in power.
Farage is a slimeball but, like it or not, he is one of the most influential British politicians of our time. I hated him for Brexit but when it cones to FPTP and reducing immigration Reform clearly stands out as the party that is most likely to cause an change in those issues. I don’t think they will manage it themselves but voting for then shows what people care about and it continues to raise awareness. Voting for Green sounds like a vote more for green policies (which I am all for but I think the momentum is underway and there is no stopping it). Why would I vote libdem? I could vote Plaid which is closer to my left leaning views but I think we need more of a UK wide focus on immigration.
Who else should I vote for or what have I missed?
A man who has never once won a political position is an influential politician now is he? Lord save me from armchair political pundits. He’s not influential, he’s just scary to the conservatives, who by the way are not going to be in power anymore so he’s going to lose any kind of authority that you perceive him to have had.
Labour are way more likely to listen to anything the greens have to say. Reform won’t be scary to labour because they’re not going to lose votes to them.
But feel free to go vote for the racist party and if they gain any MPs it will be your fault.
Brexit is the biggest thing to have happened to the UK in recent history.
You think that would have happened without him?
If those are your main issues, how are they any different from greens or libdems?
I have voted green before but I don’t think they care enough about immigration. I think the economic boom in green energy means that the landslide to green power is already underway and effort should be spent in other areas. No one is really going to slow or speed up the green revolution from a global point of view, which is frankly all that matters?
Why would I vote for libdem?
Why would I vote for libdem?
Because they want to get rid of FPTP and fix immigration, your main two important issues. But it seems like you’re adding extra steps now…
Anyways, reading your other comments here, you’ve confirmed what others already suspected - you don’t really want to fix the root issues of immigration, you’re just a xenophob.
I’m not adding extra steps at all. I want a party that will do something about immigration and voting. Reform seem the loudest in that space so they are likely to get my vote.
You are the one trying to convince me to vote libdem and I don’t see what they offer. The party has never interested me and I don’t see why I would vote for them. So if you can’t give me a reason to choose then over reform I don’t see why you would bring it up.
I don’t know if it’s your reading comprehension or you’re just confused, but I urge you to re-read my comments - I’m not trying to convince you of anything, you clearly made your decision and it doesn’t seem to be based on any empirical evidence.
You made some bold claims though and I’m here to challenge you on those.
- You claim to be a “leftie”.
- You voted remain.
- You want to reform FPTP and immigration.
- Apparently reform are the only ones to hit all the boxes.
So my answer is this… If you vote Reform, you’re not a leftie. If you vote Farage, you’re not a Remainer either. There are other parties who want to reform voting and immigration with better track record, actual councillors and more humane policies.
They have fewer of those scary foreign looking people
Standard reactionary apologia.
Reform aren’t a real political party. Real political parties have to reveal who donated to them and what their vested interests are in.
Reform is the personal hype machine of Nigel Farage and exists solely to keep that pound shop Oswald Moseley in the newspapers.
I’m aware they are a hype machine.
But you can’t doubt the effect UKIP had on the UK relationship with the EU. (Even though I voted remain)
I’m hoping they can also do something about immigration.
